You can read the show notes for this episode here.
Episode Preview / Introduction
| Claud Williams | 00:00:00 | People are always looking for, like, a reason to put you into a box and put limitations on you because of that. And many people who have any type of thing that makes them diverse in any type of way, we learn to almost put up a barrier or armor or try to hide it or whatever it is so that we don’t get things taken away from us before we get the chance, and it’s a survival strategy. |
Episode Main Body Part 1
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:00:33 | When did Dream Nation 2013 the creation? How did you manage the 20 people? |
| Claud Williams | 00:00:42 | You haven’t even got to that yet. All right, then. So Dream Nation the first person that actually there are two people that came on board. First of Dream Nation. One is a lady called Iris. She actually did her placement year with us. So, yeah, she was like, I’ve seen what she was a student at Loughborough. She was like, I saw what you did with style, imagery, creative circle, et cetera. I want to just jump into entrepreneurship. So do you mind if I do mind my placement year, that was a hell of scary decision. |
| Claud Williams | 00:01:15 | Yeah. And I was scared to do it, but I was just like, you know what, let’s do this. Let’s see if it works. And if you believe in me that. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:01:23 | Much, then but somebody’s doing a placement with you, that is surreal. |
| Claud Williams | 00:01:27 | But I think this kind of goes back to, I think, maybe a lesson that I hadn’t actually touched on yet and actually a reputation. So remember, she’s a student at Loughborough, so she had seen the transformation that I did of the ACS. She saw the legacy of the ACS. She saw all the awards that we were we were we had become one of the universities, like, poster childs for entrepreneurship at this point. We’d got investment from them. We’ve got this we’re in marketing campaigns. So we were really up there and just a few other things I was doing and involved in. So she saw essentially my character and my potential, and I think that’s what she bet on rather than betting on actually what I was doing at the time. |
| Claud Williams | 00:02:07 | Hopefully it was a good choice for her, but I’ll let her talk for herself on that, so she came on board. And then there was another lady who had attended my first event that organized Toby. Rachel Akinbade. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:02:21 | Okay. |
| Claud Williams | 00:02:22 | Yeah, that is so she then came on to be our editor in chief, even though we didn’t have any type of content at the time. But I thought, okay, cool, let’s do this. And as you guys probably know, Toby’s now, like, one of my closest friends, I literally think of as family. In fact, we refer to each other as cousins. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:02:43 | Yeah, that really threw me off. Initially. You were like, oh, my cousin. |
| Claud Williams | 00:02:46 | I was like, the reason we had to do that is because apart from the fact that we basically are family now, but it’s also because we were so close. People used to always think we’re dating, so it’s like, okay, if he thinks he’s my cousin, then that solves all the issues. Although Toby and Iris had joined the team, I still was doing the vast majority of the work. And that wasn’t because of a lack of their willingness or ability. |
| Claud Williams | 00:03:11 | That was because I just had this whole founder thing of like, oh, it’s faster for me to do it myself or easier this and that. So I was just going through, going through, going through. And then we got to me organizing this gala. I was out of my depth. I’ve never done anything like that before. People saw Dream Nation as being this amazing massive thing as well. So then there were all these high expectations and at the time I then also had two really big personal things that happened. |
| Claud Williams | 00:03:41 | Both of my grandmothers died within a two month period of each other and that was within the same periods that the gala was taking place as well. So then that massively threw me off. My relationship with my grandmothers were really close. They both basically raised me in their own ways and I’d say a lot of who I am is because of what they put in me, essentially. So it was definitely a big loss. And between the stress of organizing the gala, between the stress of one of them passing away suddenly and the other one slowly deteriorating over that time period because of cancer, unfortunately, it was just so stressful. And then you then throw in the financial difficulty of organizing the gala, it was just like, yeah, by the time I got to the day of it, I was a mess. |
| Claud Williams | 00:04:40 | I remember I was having panic attacks and the nights beforehand, like I was like, t’s tickets aren’t selling, I haven’t sorted out this yet, I haven’t sorted out that, et cetera. I would say the first gallery organized, in my opinion, was a mess. People enjoyed it. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:04:53 | I believe I was there as well. And I don’t think it was a mess. |
| Claud Williams | 00:04:56 | The first one, the first one was. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:04:57 | It in North London type of northeast. |
| Claud Williams | 00:05:04 | The location I’m forgetting now, but it’s not the one that was not the one that because there’s one that was like, no, you know what, you didn’t come to the no, you didn’t come to the first one. I know for sure. Actually. You would know. In my opinion, it was a mess. The only saving grace is what actually became a Dream Nation tradition was like I said to myself, there’s so many things I haven’t delivered on, but if I give people free rum punch the whole night scream, then that will at least cover a lot of problems. |
| Claud Williams | 00:05:33 | And it did. So that’s the reason why whenever we do like galas and a lot of things I do for Dream Nation, there’s normally free run punch throughout the whole night. This is tradition from there. And I remember after the event, I was so down because actually my grandmother ended up passing away literally the very next day. So we went up to Birmingham. Like, the gala was done, we all went home, I got dressed, we drove up to Birmingham the next day, literally. I watched my grandmother pass. |
| Claud Williams | 00:05:59 | So during that time period over Christmas as well, I was just like, yeah, I’m just done. This was too hard. I didn’t get the support that I needed. People didn’t buy tickets the way that they said they were going to. And I felt, like, really embarrassed. I was like, this reputation I spent all these years building up, I felt like I ruined it in that moment with what to me felt like a terrible event. |
| Claud Williams | 00:06:24 | But then something a bit mad happened, which is there was a picture from that gala that went ridiculously viral. Like ridiculously viral. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:06:35 | What was in the picture? |
| Claud Williams | 00:06:36 | So it was, I think, maybe about seven or eight of the girls that I attended, they took that this really cool picture of them being kind of silly, but looking outstanding. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:06:46 | Could they all like, I think I remember this picture. |
| Claud Williams | 00:06:48 | A lot of people don’t actually know that’s where it came from, but yeah, so they were all looking great. Could they all in their garlow clothes, et cetera. But they were, like, pulling gang signs and faces, et cetera. And the caption was something like two doctors, One dentist, something like that, just naming all the things they’re doing. Yeah, and I think it was just like a moment that showed people that you can be excellent and you can also still have personality and enjoy yourself. |
| Claud Williams | 00:07:15 | And also, I think at the time, there wasn’t that many examples because all the people in that picture were black. There weren’t many examples of positive things in that nature. So it’s like, you can be successful, you can be black, and you can still enjoy yourself. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:07:28 | I think that you’re right. I didn’t come to the first gala. I saw that picture and it made me want to go. |
| Claud Williams | 00:07:34 | That’s exactly what happened. So that was when Dream Nation multiplied in its popularity and awareness because, yeah, we had people from America emailing me, be like, Yo, when you come and sing this out here. It was crazy because at this point, I’d already given up. I was like, I’m not coming back to I’m not doing discrimination thing anymore. Let me go back to doing my media stuff. It was safe, it was not distressful, et cetera. |
| Claud Williams | 00:08:01 | And then, yeah, this picture went viral, and I just saw just how much of an impact it had on people. It just felt like it just uplifted people so much. And I was like, all right, you know what? Let me rededicate myself to making this work. Hey, guys, I just want to let you know that on November 24, 2023, we will be hosting our first workshop of the year. It’s going to be focused on helping you to become a board member. |
| Claud Williams | 00:08:25 | For more information, visit the Dream Nation website at DREAMNATION co. That’s DREAMNATION co and I realised the first mistake I had done was I tried to carry it all on my back by myself. So I called a meeting with Iris and Toby. I remember we met in the basement of some pub, the Star of Kings actually destin Kings course, and we just sat there for hours. This kind of discussion, and I think letting go of that control and having that humility really changed the dynamic of, I guess, how involved they felt with the mission. |
| Claud Williams | 00:09:00 | And the next thing we then realized was that if we want to bring this thing to a level that can hopefully impact the world, we’re going to need a team. So at that point, we laid out all the different roles that we needed and we started to think about who do we know in different networks that can do all these positions? We just went out and recruited and then we got to about ten people. I think at first we used that team of ten to do the next Dream Nation conference and that was just amazing. |
| Claud Williams | 00:09:28 | In fact, this was now, I think this is now 2015 or 2016. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:09:32 | And you had a gala, right? Yes, and I think I remember seeing the conference and it was like I remember seeing on your website and it was all sold out and I was so annoyed because I kept missing because you had a few days, but solid. |
| Claud Williams | 00:09:50 | Yeah. So 2015, now that I had a set of people that I’d let actually just commit themselves to this vision, really get involved, et cetera yeah, blew up. Everything was a million times better than what I was doing when I was doing it by myself. Like the quality was up there, the impact was up there, the growth, the hype, et cetera. And I think from that it just kept on attracting more and more people. That said that’s when I first started paying people to then be part of my team, they joined full time at the time. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:10:19 | Wow. |
| Claud Williams | 00:10:20 | They were not on full time salaries, but yeah, they were that committed to the division and because they had me such a commitment, I actually went on to make them co founders as well. In that regard, you have to also. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:10:33 | Think about the time, like how old you were at the time and people were more willing to do things and to take a risk because they didn’t have that much financial responsibility as well. |
| Claud Williams | 00:10:47 | Yes and no. So we don’t have anywhere near as much as we have now, so there’s no way that people in their late twenty s and thirty s can be doing what we was doing then. No chance. But that doesn’t mean it was easy. Everybody that had come on board to do that. They were turning away significant money because they were very talented people, very talented. They could have got much better jobs elsewhere, without any doubt. |
| Claud Williams | 00:11:10 | The thing what kept them there, I guess, was one, the vision, like they believed in it themselves, but then also two, if I’m being involved, my leadership. So those two things together then attract people. Well, it’s like I said earlier, I was like, if you don’t own it and then it’s like people can’t latch onto it. So because I owned it, I gave people something to anchor into as well. And then we just kept slowly growing from there to there until before I knew we got to 20. |
| Claud Williams | 00:11:37 | But the 2020 is a lot. It is a lot. It was too much because I guess because there was so much going on, I had kind of forgotten some of the lessons I learned earlier and I was just accepting a lot of people onto the team and then not really also paying attention to how much they were committed to what it is I was doing. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:12:01 | Because everyone’s excited. It’s Dream Nation to be a part of the team. It’s like, oh my God. But they’re not actually all pulling their way. |
| Claud Williams | 00:12:09 | But it’s the recognition, 100% recognition opportunities. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:12:13 | Opportunities that it will open up for them. |
| Claud Williams | 00:12:15 | Definitely. Almost everybody that was part of the team went on to get something better as a consequence of being there. I also write really good references as well. But yeah, it was definitely a mistake in terms of the way that I handled leadership at that time. And it’s the reason why I ultimately had to have a hard reset, stop everything and go back down to one. So yeah, I went back down to just myself. |
| Claud Williams | 00:12:40 | I really had to go back to basics and think about what is it that I’m really trying to accomplish, but also this time, how do I build a sustainable business? Like, not on this hype, not just on energy, but something that’s going to make a real impact and be able to last. So that was, I guess the story of how we went from that to 20, but never add on to one again. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:13:02 | And now you have three. Now I’ve got three, including me. I’m rhyming a lot, but that sounds really good. |
Preview of Jessica Joseph’s Episode
| Jessica Joseph | 00:13:10 | I think being a leader as a founder, there is a real sense of responsibility and this level of pressure. You are the person that they turn to. And even though, yeah, it’s great to get ideas from the team, ultimately you’re the decision maker, so you have to have that confidence in what you’re saying because they look to you to set the mission, set the vision. So that I found hard sometimes. Because also I’m a very sociable build up my batteries from being around other people. And I’ve never been good in my own company. |
| Jessica Joseph | 00:13:40 | I just love hearing other people’s opinions and working on things together and very much a team player. It’s not even unlearning that, but trying to step away from that a little bit and make my own decisions as a leader has been something to adjust to and get comfortable with. |
Episode Main Body Part 2
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:13:55 | Okay, so you are quite open to talk about the fact that you’re Dyslexic and how that impacts your way of working and the adjustments that you’ve made in your life to be able to still be to work to the best possible capability you can. I’m sure there are plenty of other people who have we all have something. First of all, how did you acknowledge that there was a level of limitation in certain way that you may have and turn that around into a positive? I don’t want to say positive, but you know what I mean. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:14:39 | Working to your advantage. |
| Claud Williams | 00:14:41 | I’m going to say, for me, I was very blessed and very lucky when it came to Dyslexia, because I was diagnosed very young. I think I was I was definitely in primary school. So we’re talking maybe like six to seven, sort of. So very young. When I found out, it helps because it meant that it put everything into context. So a lot of people, when they get the diagnosis at a later age in life, whether it’s Dyslexia or ADHD or whatever, they’re like, oh, that explains the last however many years of my life. |
| Claud Williams | 00:15:16 | Whereas for me, I always went into every situation understanding, this is the way that my brain is wired. It’s different to everybody else. So if you want to succeed, take a different pathway. And I’ve just lived with that reality, so it’s always been fine for me. And I think with that, without a doubt, I do say it in terms of, like, oh, yes, the superpower, it does come with advantages. It means my brain is wired differently. I think differently. I’m naturally more innovative. |
| Claud Williams | 00:15:44 | It’s that simple. However, my brain is wired differently, I think differently. So therefore, things that are standard to most people are not standard to me. It’s a double edged sword in that regard. And because of, I guess, my practical mentality and the confidence that’s been instilled in me, I’m more focused on, all right, if I can’t do it the way that everyone else does, let’s find a way that works for me. |
| Claud Williams | 00:16:10 | So one of the most important hires in my life, in fact, as you said, when I went back down to one, the first person I hired was an Admin. So my PA Shanna, she is literally like, I cannot yeah, she’s amazing. But I promise you there would be no Claude Williams if there was no Shanna. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:16:30 | Wow. |
| Claud Williams | 00:16:31 | You would not know who I am. Because part of the reason stuff like Gmation failed and fell apart the first time was because I was not handling my Admin correctly. It’s that simple. I was missing out on stuff, and we had, like, stupid fines from the HMRC for just not submitting our account and stuff. It was like, why it’s not needed? And I say stupid. I mean, we’re talking thousands and I don’t think you even owed the money. You were just getting fines just because. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:16:58 | We didn’t late submissions. We’ve been there. |
| Claud Williams | 00:17:06 | I’ve now really just embraced what am I good at, what am I bad at? And now just get people to fill my weaknesses. It’s that simple. Even to ever see you as my producer, you already know I leave almost all admin to you. I leave obviously a lot of the creative side, but also I leave the administrative of actually booking guests, like getting that stuff organized, handling emails and stuff. I was like, I know I’m bad at it and I’ll get in your way in doing so. So I’ll let you be great at that and I’ll be great at the things that I have to handle, simple as. |
| Claud Williams | 00:17:38 | And I think embracing your strengths and your weaknesses and really leaning into them is one of the best things you can do, without a doubt. You can’t always run away from your weaknesses. I’ve also become much better at admin and organization and stuff like that, just within myself. Because if I want to get to a certain level of greatness, that’s required. But I also know that there is a limit to that. |
| Claud Williams | 00:18:01 | So I’ll get to my potential, that limit, and I’ll then let other people carry it to another level from there. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:18:09 | Within leadership, how have you approached even the people that you’re working with? |
| Claud Williams | 00:18:16 | I think brutal honesty. So I accept my strengths, I set my weaknesses, I embrace them and I don’t hide them. So probably one of the first conversations you would have had with me is I’m Dyslexic, I am not good at this, or X, or Y, or Z. In fact, even before we even had a conversation, if I emailed you first, you would see it in the email. So because I’m so open about it, a, it’s never a weapon that can be used against me first and foremost, but B, it then just means that we can have just honest conversations. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:18:50 | Why do you think people are afraid to share? Especially in business as like an entrepreneur and as a leader? |
| Claud Williams | 00:18:57 | I think the reality is that there’s so much stigma, not just around Dyslexia, but just around anything. People are so quick to so quick to judge people. We’re so quick to find people’s weaknesses, to judge people, to make assumptions around people that can be like your neurodiversity. It could be a disability, it could be your race, it could be your gender, your sexuality, whatever people are always looking for. |
| Claud Williams | 00:19:26 | It’s like a reason to put you into a box and put limitations on you because of that. And many people who have any type of thing that makes them diverse in any type of way, we learn to almost put up a barrier or armor or try to hide it or whatever it is so that we don’t get things taken away from us before we get the chance. And it’s a survival strategy. Like, I’m not going to sit here and tell you that everybody is accepting of all these things. Like, they’re not. |
| Claud Williams | 00:20:01 | I still have plenty of people that will still complain about stuff when they see see a typo when I write something on social online. And I’m sure there’s many, many more people who will never say it to me or who will never say it publicly, but they’ve made assumptions about my intelligence because of the frequency of my typos. I’m very sure that’s a thing I’m even sure not even sure I’ve experienced. I remember when one time I went to a job interview and they gave me a written task to do or something like that. So those that know me know that I don’t handle paper. |
| Claud Williams | 00:20:37 | I refuse, I will type it up. And that’s a Dyslexic thing for me. That’s one way that typing helps me to solve most of my Dyslexia issues. But they forced me to do this written type of thing and then they judged me then on the speed of my writing and the typos and grammar mistakes. And I’m just like, this is irrelevant to the job that you’re hiring me to. And then I realized that’s probably even breaking the law, if I’m honest with you. Like, I could probably see them, but it’s not that deep. But in my head, I was just like, they still live in a world where they’re judging people by things that don’t matter. |
| Claud Williams | 00:21:17 | And as a result, they literally just pushed out one of the potential best hires they could have made because of their backwards thinking. But so much of the world still operates in that way, where they’ll see your weaknesses, they’ll see the things you’re bad at, or they’ll see your limitations, and then they’ll ignore all of the massive range of strengths that you bring to the table. So yeah, there’s a valid reason for people to oftentimes keep it to themselves. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:21:45 | And you’ve mentioned that company. But as a leader yourself, when you’re hiring people and you’re looking at people, how do you make that decision that outside of all these other things that is blatantly could cause some type of delay or stuff like that this person is still the right person for the team or I’m going to take a chance on them? How do you make that decision? |
| Claud Williams | 00:22:12 | I think it’s natural to me because I have that empathy for it because I’ve been there. I’ve lived it, and I’m still living it. Like I said, I still will be judged for opportunities right now based on a number of factors out of my control. So the way I see it is like, can you do the job that I need you to do and can you do it well. That’s it. I literally do not care about any other thing you’ve got going on. |
| Claud Williams | 00:22:37 | If you can do this well and you’re not going to be disruptive to stuff like the culture that I’m trying to create and stuff like that, like your heart and character is in the right place, then, yeah, no, I’ll rock with that. It’s cool. If you happen to do all of your work at 03:00 a.m. In the morning, did the job get done cool? It’s not a problem. Do you have five full time jobs? Do you do the work? I need you to do the work. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:23:01 | Okay, now I hear that, yeah, you’ve made me think about something, because a lot of people say the way I speak is very clear and very simple words, but it’s because that’s how I can struggle sometimes to formulate things in my head and it just it’s easier for me to just use the most simple words. I’ve looked at that as, like, a negative thing, but then later on in life, people are like, oh, you speak so clearly, I can understand everything you say. And it’s like, oh, okay, so it actually is. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:23:38 | Some people will see that as a positive thing. You just made me think about that and it’s like, yeah, I didn’t even notice it. |
| Claud Williams | 00:23:47 | Yeah, seriously now, I’ve never noticed it. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:23:49 | Wow. |
| Claud Williams | 00:23:49 | Do you know what I notice? |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:23:50 | What do you notice? |
| Claud Williams | 00:23:51 | That you’re a flipping amazing producer. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:23:53 | Oh, thank you. |
| Claud Williams | 00:23:55 | Literally, that’s all I care about. Do you do that well? Are you happy? Do you have the right culture? And yeah, if you do, then how much do you cost? And you have a question I need to know. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:24:08 | Yeah, no, I hear that. That’s cool. But yeah, this has been really lovely and I’m excited for us to do this every so often based on the type of guests and the themes that we keep seeing popping up just to get to know you more. Yeah. Because you’re a great listener and you give the guest I think as an interviewer, you have to give the guests the space to talk, but you, as an entity by yourself, you need the space to talk and for us to learn more about you. |
| Claud Williams | 00:24:42 | Hopefully, I will follow the advice or your instructions now, over time, I will become a better interviewer or host and with that, begin to input more in the conversations. Like, I’m aware that when you guys do watch the current interviews that I’m very silent. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:24:57 | You’re not silent because you’re engaged, but we’re picking people who got stories to tell. So it is what it is. But, yeah, we’ll definitely we’ll get there. |
| Claud Williams | 00:25:12 | I’ll become a better host over time. |
Post Episode Chat & Ending
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:25:13 | That’s to come, we have to continuously excel. So that’s it. But yeah, this has been lovely. |
| Claud Williams | 00:25:19 | I’ve really enjoyed this. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:25:20 | Have you enjoyed it? |
| Claud Williams | 00:25:21 | 100%. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:25:22 | Is anything you wanted to say about leadership that we haven’t actually said? We have two minutes. |
| Camera Man | 00:25:29 | Well, it’s been an hour now. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:25:31 | Oh. And an hour on the hour of the recording. Wow. Okay. |
| Claud Williams | 00:25:36 | I think let’s just leave it there. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:25:37 | Yeah. |
| Claud Williams | 00:25:38 | All right, then. |
| Abisoye Adelusi | 00:25:39 | Bye. See you on the other side. Cool. How are you feeling? Good. Good. I’m glad. Get you ready because we got another recording in a few hours. |
| Claud Williams | 00:25:55 | Thank you for tuning into today’s episode. We release a new episode every Sunday, so make sure that you subscribe and follow us so that you never miss out. If you’d like some more inspiration while you wait for the next new episode, then check out the recommendation above. Don’t forget to follow us on social media, and you can send us a question or dilemma that you’d like us to answer on the podcast. This is William. You’ve been watching behind the Dreams, and we look forward to seeing you at the next Dream Nation event. |
